How to keep your kids safe online with Julie Inman-Grant

Tracey C.:
Hello, I’m Tracey Challenor. Welcome to the Life Education podcast series.

Tracey C.:
Well, keeping kids cyber safe can be a minefield for parents and teachers. From protecting kids from online pornography to dealing with cyberbullying, many parents find it a challenge to navigate the landscape of digital childhoods, and with more than 90% of pre-schoolers now having access to an internet-enabled device awareness about online safety needs to start earlier than ever.

Tracey C.:
Joining me today is Julie Inman Grant, Australia’s e-Safety Commissioner. Julie heads the only government office in the world dedicated to the safety of citizens online, providing Australians with a place to report online abuse.

Tracey C.:
Hello Julie. Thanks so much for joining me.

Julie Inman :
Thank you so much for having me Tracey.

Tracey C.:
Julie, kids as young as two are accessing digital devices. In fact, your office recently developed new guidelines to help parents and carers protect younger children from online predators. Why do parents need to start online safety education early and what are the risks to children if they don’t stay one step ahead?

Julie Inman :
Right. Well, I think parents have been using various digital babysitters, if you will over the past few decades. Back in our day it was mom putting us in front of the TV while she had line of sight making breakfast or dinner. The difference between the digital devices we’re providing our children with today and the TVs of yesterday is that they were passive devices. These are connected to the internet.

Julie Inman :
So, if we’re not ensuring that we’re either looking over their shoulders at all times or have the right parental controls in place, then there is the possibility that our children could come across content that is offensive or harmful to them. And then as they get older and they become more conversant, many of the very popular games and educational platforms have chat functions, and this can essentially allow strangers into our lounge rooms if we’re not really keeping track and having important conversations with our children about getting help and seeking engagement and also setting limitations when they’re using these digital devices.

Tracey C.:
So the message from e-Safety Office is that really parents can’t wait until primary school to start teaching kids these messages; they have to have these conversations early.

Julie Inman :
Absolutely. The moment we hand our child a digital device, we need to be talking with them about the dos and the don’ts and we need to be talking about how they make good choices, where they get help and how to stay safe. So, we have put together a range of materials on esafety.gov.au to help parents have these conversations.

Julie Inman :
Now we want to have conversations, particularly with young children in a way that doesn’t frighten them or scare them about stranger danger because our children cognitively can’t yet grasp what that means when they see a cute emoji or a cartoon character that that could be a bad person. They’re going to be meeting new doctors, new teachers, other kids’ parents over time, so we need to be careful about the approaches that we take.

Tracey C.:
It’s constant vigilance isn’t it?

Julie Inman :
That’s right.

Tracey C.:
Well, let’s talk about cyberbullying. Last year the e-Safety Office reported a 30% increase in cyberbullying complaints nationwide. A lot of those reports were from young people. What are the main types of bullying that you’re seeing?

Julie Inman :
Right. I suppose if there’s any good news here is that over the past 10 years, the number of kids being cyber bullied is one in five, and it has remained at one and five in terms of prevalence over the past 10 years. And that’s compared to one in four children that experienced face to face bullying.

Julie Inman :
What we do see in terms of cyberbullying is we see serious name calling, about 15% of them with direct threats, which is obviously concerning because we’re talking about children under the age of 18. We have the sharing of offensive pictures or image-based abuse or sexting and we also have a complaints function for that. We’re increasingly seeing young people create fake or impersonator accounts to target other kids. And we’re also seeing just things like social exclusion online, which can be very damaging to a kid when their humiliation is amplified, when they’re left out of something.

Tracey C.:
And statistically, as you mentioned, one in five children experiences cyberbullying with the typical age being about 14 and girls more likely to be bullied than boys. We all know there have been some devastating outcomes from trolling and cyberbullying. What can we do to stop it?

Julie Inman :
One of the things that we’ve been doing is talking about the four Rs for the digital age. Back in our day was reading, writing, and arithmetic. Today almost all forms of online abuse are rooted in not only conflict that’s happening within the school yard, but in social and behavioral issues that we can tackle through what we call the four Rs of the digital age; respect, responsibility, we need to build digital resilience in our young people as well as critical reasoning skills. So, we do have to target these issues behaviorally, but we also have to recognize the different impacts that cyberbullying might have vis-a-vis face to face bullying.

Julie Inman :
We know that cyberbullying of course is much more invasive and pervasive because it can follow our children into our homes outside school hours on these super computers that they’re carrying in their pockets. And often cyberbullying is very, very obvious to a young person and their peers, but it’s hidden or latent where parents are concerned.

Julie Inman :
So we need to understand that this can have devastating mental health effects and traumatic effects, but also encourage our children to talk to a trusted adult when something goes wrong or talk to a sibling or a peer and to get help. They can do that by reporting to the social media site in the first instance. If it is considered serious bullying, it’s not taken down. The young person, their parent or a sibling can come to the e-Safety Office and we serve as a safety net and can compel, take down of that seriously harmful material.

Tracey C.:
The e-Safety Office has resolved more than a thousand cases of cyberbullying and you have been successful in having content taken down. That must be quite helpful for children who are being victimised.

Julie Inman :
It is, we know that the longer that harmful and targeted content [inaudible 00:07:26] is up, the more trauma that causes for the victims. We’ve been able to get down content expeditiously, as soon as 30 minutes after it’s reported to a site.

Julie Inman :
What’s important to know is that often context is missed by the major platforms. So, Facebook has 2.7 billion users. Twitter has a billion tweets on this platform every two days. I think there’s something like 600 hours’ worth of content uploaded to YouTube every minute. So, you’re talking about vast amounts of content and when things are reported to the social media sites, their content moderators have between 30 seconds in a minute to decide whether that post, tweet or video contravenes their terms of service.

Julie Inman :
So obviously things fall through the cracks or contexts can be missed. And that’s where we can advocate on behalf of the child to have that content taken down and we have significant regulatory powers to compel the companies to do so.

Tracey C.:
Yeah, that’s so important that you’re able to do that. Julie, you often hear that children don’t tell their parents that they’re being bullied. How do we encourage young people to speak out about cyberbullying if they’re experiencing it or call it out if they’re a bystander to others being victimised?

Julie Inman :
That’s tricky because we don’t want to put anyone in harm’s way and of course just in talking to my own kids and to the kids that we visit in schools, no one wants to be the dobber or the snitch. I think we do need to find … if we’re talking to our kids early and often about what can go wrong and letting them know that they can come to us in the face of any adversity without the threat of device denial I think that’s an important first step. Letting them know that that things can be done.

Julie Inman :
That’s another thing we hear from young people. “I know more about technology than my mum does. What can they do to really help me?” But the truth is there are things that can be done. You can go to the e-Safety Office. We can help you take down that content. We also work very closely with organisations like Kids Helpline, and for kids that are experiencing significant mental anguish or trauma, we can direct them to these wonderfully incredible and helpful mental health services to support young people.

Tracey C.:
Well Julie, the Life Education, bCyberwise and Relate Respect Connect programs, teach kids about cyber ethics and building positive relationships with friends online as well as strategies to deal with bullying and cyberbullying. It’s really about reducing the incidents of bullying. How important is it, and you touched on this before, how important is it to educate kids from a young age about being a good online citizen?

Julie Inman :
Oh, it’s absolutely critical. And I really rate Life Education’s programs in this area. We are talking about really fundamental human values, aren’t we? Respect, consent, taking responsibility for how you’re using that technology and understanding that it can cause real damage. We see this with road rage, don’t we? That bit of dissociation that you have and it’s amplified when you’re behind the keyboard and you’re not seeing the impact it has at a human level on the person on the other end of that text or that message.

Julie Inman :
Teaching that early and often, having those conversations … I talk to my kids about technology being a privilege, not a right and they need to continue to demonstrate that they’re using that technology responsibly and respectfully to continue to be able to have a phone or to use the iPad to play a game.

Tracey C.:
And I think Julie, that idea of empathy is so important because you often hear, and adults are guilty of this too, that they might write something online that they would never say to someone’s face, something cruel or hurtful.

Julie Inman :
Oh absolutely. Yes, we do see adults engaging that kind of behaviour all the time. And it’s important to remember as adults, we need to model the right kind of behaviour for young people because they are learning from us and we all need to be role models, whether in our professional capacity or in our capacity as parents. You can’t be talking to your kids about screen use while you’re scrolling through your Twitter feed at the dinner table. We need to live these values as well.

Tracey C.:
That’s right. Well, we hear a lot about sharenting now, parents who over share on social media. Most of us have been guilty of it at one time or another. Do you think many parents underestimate the risks of putting too much information online about their children, the digital footprint that is created? What do we need to be aware of?

Julie Inman :
Well, listen, I do think we need to be mindful of what we’re putting online with our children. I think we just need to achieve that, right kind of balance. We do need to think about consent, about the digital footprint we’re creating for my child. I mean, we’re actually creating that sometimes before the child’s even born. I mean, how many sonograms have you seen posted on Facebook?

Julie Inman :
There are wonderful benefits to sharing our children’s milestones and their growth online just try and think about what this might mean for them in the future. Will they be embarrassed on their 21st birthday? Are you sharing things that could be hurtful down the line or could be exploited by someone with mal-intent?

Julie Inman :
We need to be more thoughtful about what we’re putting online and just engage in protective behaviours as we do in our everyday lives with children.

Tracey C.:
One of the things our educators teach to children through our program is that a child’s image actually belongs to them. It’s their image and it’s not for anyone else to share on their behalf. Is that something you support?

Julie Inman :
Well, it is their image. Again, it comes back to role modelling and the values of respect and consent.

Julie Inman :
I remember talking to my children when they were about to turn five and go into kindergarten and would they be okay if I took a picture of them and posted it to Facebook so that their granny and grandad in the US could see them. And one of my twins, surprisingly asked, “Well, what if I decide I want it taken down?” And I said, “That’s a good question.” And it’s a fair question. It is their right to say no. It is their right. You can give them a chance to choose which picture they want to have up there if they’re okay with it.

Julie Inman :
Again, this is all within reason. Teaching them these values like consent, respect and trust. By engaging them in the conversation and helping them be part of the decision-making process is a good way to inculcate these values for the future with the hope that they will show the same respect, consent and empathy towards others.

Tracey C.:
Very much so. Many Australian parents are also worried about their kids encountering pornography online. No one wants their kids to come across these kinds of often violent and distressing images and yet they are so readily available. How can we protect children from seeing this graphic content?

Julie Inman :
This is a very, very challenging issue. This, as you suggested, the nature of the pornographic content that is readily available today is not the same thing as your dad’s Penthouse in the sock drawer. Some of this is extreme violent pornographic content and children don’t likely have the tools to understand what this means in the context of what a real respectful relationship looks like. And so often this kind of content is viewed either outside of the home or shared by an older person or sibling. So, it’s a very real fear.

Julie Inman :
We’ve got some tips on our website about how to talk to our children at the age of eight, between the ages of eight and 12 and then as teenagers about this content online because it’s really not a matter of if they will come across it or seek it out it’s a matter of when.

Julie Inman :
We do know that there’s certain technologies, parental control technologies and even age-verification technologies are starting to make some headway. But the best filters we’ll ever have are the ones between our ears. And we as parents can be the best firewall, again, continuing to engage in our children’s lives about where they’re going, what they’re seeing online, letting them know that they can come to you if they see anything confronting.

Julie Inman :
We’re working with schools to make sure that as they’re covering things like sex education, that children’s use of the internet and pornography on the internet is something that’s covered in these lessons about what is real and what isn’t, what is safe and what isn’t and what they should do if anything makes them feel disturbed or uncomfortable.

Tracey C.:
Yeah. It’s not a topic that we can just put in the too hard basket because no one wants to talk about it. Really have to have that conversation, don’t we?

Julie Inman :
We do. I mean this could really ultimately impact the social sexualisation of our children down the track.

Tracey C.:
Julie, just in general, what would be your top three tips for parents to adopt to help their children stay safe online and protect them as much as possible?

Julie Inman :
Well, talk early and often to your child and make sure that they know that they can come to you for support with any type of bullying or harmful online content. I would say please keep the phones out of the bedroom. Keep the technology out in the open so that you can check on them from time to time. You can hear what’s been said. A lot of the online games like Fortnite have chat functions on them and if your kids aren’t wearing headphones then you can kind of hear the level of conversation, you can check it in terms of communicating with your child. So, know the apps and games that they’re using and if your child is young, turn off the chat function and make sure you know what the privacy and safety settings are.

Julie Inman :
You can find all of this information that esafety.gov.au.

Tracey C.:
Julie, thank you. It’s such an important role that you have as Australia’s e-Safety Commissioner, and it’s been a real pleasure chatting to you today about online safety and cyberbullying. It is such a minefield for parents. But thank you for sharing your expertise with us today.

Julie Inman :
Thank you so much Tracey.

Tracey C.:
My guest today was Julie Inman Grant, Federal e-Safety Commissioner. And you can find out more about online safety as well as helpful resources at esafety.gov.au.

Tracey C.:
I’m Tracey Challenor …and you’ve been listening to the Life podcast podcast series. Until next time, thanks for joining us.